Flameduck: All anti-vegan flaming just bounces off me because I've heard all the same totally uninformed drivel spouted for years. The point about farming for meat is that you have to use *way* more land to grow "feed" for cattle than if humans just ate the "feed" themselves; so feeding meet animals increases any "cruelly murdering animals born free and living in the wild" exponentially. Especially seeing as one of the main causes for deforestation of rainforests (resulting in the killing of *many* animals and even human inhabitants) is to grow soya to feed cattle (not to feed Vegans who tend to get ethically farmed organic soya from approved sources). Also the farm machinery required to take care of the cattle uses *way* more oil than my rarely driven car (I work at home). Did you get that before you unthinkingly auto-flamed? Go and eat a pie and think about it.