thought I'd answered my question, turned out to be tutorials on how do animate models that already have pivot points....
this is better:
http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=40151
which led to:-
http://www.anim8or.com/manual/index.html
this is better:
http://www.blitzbasic.com/Community/posts.php?topic=40151
which led to:-
http://www.anim8or.com/manual/index.html