I agree with Mark Tiffany.
The relationship I have had in my contracts is:
Me - Programmer
Employeer - Designer
Others - Artists, Musicians.
The designer will say "This is what I want to do" and present me with a basic document with some mock up drawings of what he sees in his head. Then he says "what do you think".
I look at the material, come up with some basic mental images of code structure and time. I offer pro's and con's of different elements of gameplay (not the gameplay mechanic, but more how this will be implimented and the many different ways it can be implimented with pros and cons for each). I then find the really hard areas and warn him that these will take more time to impliment, then find the really easy stuff and say these you can expect in the prototype.
He then comes back with "what are your requirements for media". And I answer with the solution he chose from the list of options I gave him.
Then I start the prototype (basic version with simple gameplay mechanic, and no interface really, the interface should usually be the last to develop unless its an RTS or something). I put together some basic game objects, with simple keystroke commands to make it do what he wants it to do. We go back and forth on tweaking the prototype till he sees what he wants to see.
From there we make more decisions. When I say 'we' I mean I present the issues I had to over come in the prototype, and some possible solutions I come up with. He tells me what he wants to keep, and what he wants to dump. Any new features he came up with go into the prototype for testing at that time.
From then on, the design is usually set in stone (with the exception of dumping more features to expidite development, but that's at his call, not mine).
As for design, he is the designer. I have never been able to work freely myself, I have always needed someone calling the shots (not that I am incapable of design, it's just that I am a perfectionist, and get caught up on futile details in code that I shouldn't). I offer suggestions from time to time like "I think this looks better than that" or "this guy looks a little cheesy in my opinion" but I leave it at that. I dont push the issue as it is his vision, and I am the guy bringing it to life.
Does my current employeer have coding experience? I think a bit, enough to give a decent pong game anyhow (I dont think he would take offense to that comment either). Does he need coding experience? Not really. He relies on me telling him what can and can't be done. He relies on my opinion of time required for each feature, for that is how he determines cost, not only cost of me, but cost of artists (to get the required bone structure I need to work with, or the required music format) as well.
What makes my guy different from other guys with ideas? Well for one, my guy already works in the industry as an entry level designer for another company. Does it pay him well? I dont know, he would say it's enough to pay the bills and fund his hobbies (that being designing his own games). And lastly, he is able to pay for the work he wants done. Most designers want to do the sweat-equity thing, which usually never turns out in the end. when a guy has something invested (more than just his time and thoughts) it becomes important to him to see it through to completion.
I did ask at one point why he choose me over others he has interviewed (after all, I dont claim to be the be-all-end-all of programmers like flameduck does ;-P ). His response was "you can created completed games most indies dont see it all the way through, and most pros can't because they never had to". Which sort of brought an aww to my jaw. I just assumed most in the industry do the project from start to finish. He said that most of the AAA industry coders only work on a small part (say the rendering pipeline, or physics), they would never be able to do it all (physics, input, sound, rendering, or even HUD/GUI) to see a project from start to finish.
That's my 2 cents any how. The relation ship works well (well until late I should say, where I switched jobs and had to tell him that I don't have enough time to dedicate to what we used to do). He keeps asking if I can spare some time for some simple casual, but I can't promise anything (as I would hate to commit, and not be able to deliver). He keeps offering the money, which is a good motivation, but I can't in good honesty commit yet (4 months at my new job)
The relationship I have had in my contracts is:
Me - Programmer
Employeer - Designer
Others - Artists, Musicians.
The designer will say "This is what I want to do" and present me with a basic document with some mock up drawings of what he sees in his head. Then he says "what do you think".
I look at the material, come up with some basic mental images of code structure and time. I offer pro's and con's of different elements of gameplay (not the gameplay mechanic, but more how this will be implimented and the many different ways it can be implimented with pros and cons for each). I then find the really hard areas and warn him that these will take more time to impliment, then find the really easy stuff and say these you can expect in the prototype.
He then comes back with "what are your requirements for media". And I answer with the solution he chose from the list of options I gave him.
Then I start the prototype (basic version with simple gameplay mechanic, and no interface really, the interface should usually be the last to develop unless its an RTS or something). I put together some basic game objects, with simple keystroke commands to make it do what he wants it to do. We go back and forth on tweaking the prototype till he sees what he wants to see.
From there we make more decisions. When I say 'we' I mean I present the issues I had to over come in the prototype, and some possible solutions I come up with. He tells me what he wants to keep, and what he wants to dump. Any new features he came up with go into the prototype for testing at that time.
From then on, the design is usually set in stone (with the exception of dumping more features to expidite development, but that's at his call, not mine).
As for design, he is the designer. I have never been able to work freely myself, I have always needed someone calling the shots (not that I am incapable of design, it's just that I am a perfectionist, and get caught up on futile details in code that I shouldn't). I offer suggestions from time to time like "I think this looks better than that" or "this guy looks a little cheesy in my opinion" but I leave it at that. I dont push the issue as it is his vision, and I am the guy bringing it to life.
Does my current employeer have coding experience? I think a bit, enough to give a decent pong game anyhow (I dont think he would take offense to that comment either). Does he need coding experience? Not really. He relies on me telling him what can and can't be done. He relies on my opinion of time required for each feature, for that is how he determines cost, not only cost of me, but cost of artists (to get the required bone structure I need to work with, or the required music format) as well.
What makes my guy different from other guys with ideas? Well for one, my guy already works in the industry as an entry level designer for another company. Does it pay him well? I dont know, he would say it's enough to pay the bills and fund his hobbies (that being designing his own games). And lastly, he is able to pay for the work he wants done. Most designers want to do the sweat-equity thing, which usually never turns out in the end. when a guy has something invested (more than just his time and thoughts) it becomes important to him to see it through to completion.
I did ask at one point why he choose me over others he has interviewed (after all, I dont claim to be the be-all-end-all of programmers like flameduck does ;-P ). His response was "you can created completed games most indies dont see it all the way through, and most pros can't because they never had to". Which sort of brought an aww to my jaw. I just assumed most in the industry do the project from start to finish. He said that most of the AAA industry coders only work on a small part (say the rendering pipeline, or physics), they would never be able to do it all (physics, input, sound, rendering, or even HUD/GUI) to see a project from start to finish.
That's my 2 cents any how. The relation ship works well (well until late I should say, where I switched jobs and had to tell him that I don't have enough time to dedicate to what we used to do). He keeps asking if I can spare some time for some simple casual, but I can't promise anything (as I would hate to commit, and not be able to deliver). He keeps offering the money, which is a good motivation, but I can't in good honesty commit yet (4 months at my new job)