ok, I've used jfk's recursive mesh hierarchy app from the code archives, problem is all my child entities are pivots, which is useful, but I really want to access the child meshes, so I can hide my characters sword for example, is this something to do with the modelling program I'm using? I'm using milkshape3d if I export to b3d format all I get are pivots and if I export to 3ds all I get are meshes, ideally I'd like to be able to access the pivots and meshes using .b3d, as I said above I'm a total Noob, so I apologise if this seems like a dumb question.