Damp: you talk a lot, and -sorry to say- a lot of it is quite generalizing or plain bull..
First: when talking about what makes trance (like the stuff on digitally imported), we're mainly talking about producing it, not about composing it. Composition is less of an issue with trance (tho not completely unimportant), it's mainly the producing/arranging that's the main part. The composition then again heavilly interacts with the actual producing.. most simple example would be the tons of reverb and echos involved, one writes notes that sound consonant with the reverb/echo-trail of the previous notes. So, the longer the reverb/echo-time, the more you have to count with notes farther away in time.
It's this producing/mixing that also makes or breaks a beat.. usually a lot of compression is used to pump up the lot. Compress things flat, and soft ghostnotes suddenly pop-up loud .. Compress things flat and notes become longer, as a natural decay becomes a sustain. Sync echo with the beat and the echo creates notes that interlock with the original line. Add a flanger or phaser, make sure it sweeps at the right moment, and the sweeping harmonics can act as some kinda crescendo/climax to introduce a new verse.
These are all examples where producing/mixing creates composition aspects. Things that are quite unconventional when you only think in notes and conventional composition methods.
And really, one can bitch around about how a handclaps should sound for hours.. just try to find the perfect combination of reverb, amplitude and compression, to make *that* sound. Such a dillema Bach never had.
Next on: jazz. The arguement that good jazz takes no-time is too generalizing. Perhaps you're referring to those small bands only? With a contrabas, drumkit, piano and a trumpet orso? Playing almost script-based variations of Autumn Leaves or other settled chord-schemes?
What about bigger jazz-pieces for medium/large orchestras? Big band stuff etc. sometimes you hear it passing by in movies ("Catch me if you can" (John Williams) features quite some jazzy parts, scattered between the more conventional score). That's not made in 5 minutes for sure.
Create a hypothetical app that creates trance? Bold statement.. prove it. As long as it doesn't produce/mix it, you won't succeed with just notes/midi.. (if you want any decent quality, that is..) This requires the progammer to know stuff about DSP and synthesis... the app gets more complex with every line I write.. :)
But even if you have all that, someone else comes around the corner with a tune with a structure you didn't count with, and you can label your app incomplete and obsolete again.
Besides, *if* such an app would be, it would for sure create pop/orchestral/etc. music also.. at least when I would be coding it. This simplism you see in trance equals the simplism I see in other kinds of music.
Impossible to answer as I haven't yet heard both pieces. That hour-piece can be complete crap, and the 2-week piece can be brilliant. No need to hire Poirot to find out who gets my vote eh..
Actually, the only comparison I can imagine in this special case is Vangelis, who composes realtime with his load o' Direct devices, but that's all heavily based on layers, patterns and how all these things change eachother realtime. So, an hour symphony would be Vangelis' Mythodea. Some people keep referring to The Planets by Holst (just as they did for the OST for Gladiator), so I guess I'll jump on the bandwagon and compare Mythodea and The Planets. Both are completely different, but in the end The Planets do win the race.. I dunno exactly how long it took Holst to compose it (would be easy to find out, but I'm too lazy atm) but it was definitely more than an hour!
Counterpoint is just a composition tool, can be applied to everything, even trance. With which I'm not saying that all trance has been made using counterpoint, but it could be possible.
Is it? Or do you think it is because you're burried under all the TV-ads about all this dance? I don't think for example Celine Dion got rich because of the *dance*-version of 'My heart will go on'. (that was a VERY bad concept! :P)
Just because TV ads shout about dance every minute doesn't mean the 'market is dance'.. other genres prolly need less advertising because they sell by themself already..
Anyway, in a nutshell: stating that trance doesn't require talents is nonsense. Ok, as printed score you wouldn't want to show it to Bach, but that's also not really the concept of trance anyway. It's interaction with the production to create broad landscapes.
'k time to eat..
First: when talking about what makes trance (like the stuff on digitally imported), we're mainly talking about producing it, not about composing it. Composition is less of an issue with trance (tho not completely unimportant), it's mainly the producing/arranging that's the main part. The composition then again heavilly interacts with the actual producing.. most simple example would be the tons of reverb and echos involved, one writes notes that sound consonant with the reverb/echo-trail of the previous notes. So, the longer the reverb/echo-time, the more you have to count with notes farther away in time.
It's this producing/mixing that also makes or breaks a beat.. usually a lot of compression is used to pump up the lot. Compress things flat, and soft ghostnotes suddenly pop-up loud .. Compress things flat and notes become longer, as a natural decay becomes a sustain. Sync echo with the beat and the echo creates notes that interlock with the original line. Add a flanger or phaser, make sure it sweeps at the right moment, and the sweeping harmonics can act as some kinda crescendo/climax to introduce a new verse.
These are all examples where producing/mixing creates composition aspects. Things that are quite unconventional when you only think in notes and conventional composition methods.
And really, one can bitch around about how a handclaps should sound for hours.. just try to find the perfect combination of reverb, amplitude and compression, to make *that* sound. Such a dillema Bach never had.
Next on: jazz. The arguement that good jazz takes no-time is too generalizing. Perhaps you're referring to those small bands only? With a contrabas, drumkit, piano and a trumpet orso? Playing almost script-based variations of Autumn Leaves or other settled chord-schemes?
What about bigger jazz-pieces for medium/large orchestras? Big band stuff etc. sometimes you hear it passing by in movies ("Catch me if you can" (John Williams) features quite some jazzy parts, scattered between the more conventional score). That's not made in 5 minutes for sure.
Create a hypothetical app that creates trance? Bold statement.. prove it. As long as it doesn't produce/mix it, you won't succeed with just notes/midi.. (if you want any decent quality, that is..) This requires the progammer to know stuff about DSP and synthesis... the app gets more complex with every line I write.. :)
But even if you have all that, someone else comes around the corner with a tune with a structure you didn't count with, and you can label your app incomplete and obsolete again.
Besides, *if* such an app would be, it would for sure create pop/orchestral/etc. music also.. at least when I would be coding it. This simplism you see in trance equals the simplism I see in other kinds of music.
If I can bang out a symphony in an hour, the time it took me isn't the gauge people will judge the music by, how it sounds, based on the rules of that style, are what it will be judged on. So If those that are judging it say it is just as good as some other guy that spent 2 weeks refining his piece, then who is more talented?
Impossible to answer as I haven't yet heard both pieces. That hour-piece can be complete crap, and the 2-week piece can be brilliant. No need to hire Poirot to find out who gets my vote eh..
Actually, the only comparison I can imagine in this special case is Vangelis, who composes realtime with his load o' Direct devices, but that's all heavily based on layers, patterns and how all these things change eachother realtime. So, an hour symphony would be Vangelis' Mythodea. Some people keep referring to The Planets by Holst (just as they did for the OST for Gladiator), so I guess I'll jump on the bandwagon and compare Mythodea and The Planets. Both are completely different, but in the end The Planets do win the race.. I dunno exactly how long it took Holst to compose it (would be easy to find out, but I'm too lazy atm) but it was definitely more than an hour!
don't ever compare trance to counterpunctal fugues :)
Counterpoint is just a composition tool, can be applied to everything, even trance. With which I'm not saying that all trance has been made using counterpoint, but it could be possible.
Or, since the market is a dance market
Is it? Or do you think it is because you're burried under all the TV-ads about all this dance? I don't think for example Celine Dion got rich because of the *dance*-version of 'My heart will go on'. (that was a VERY bad concept! :P)
Just because TV ads shout about dance every minute doesn't mean the 'market is dance'.. other genres prolly need less advertising because they sell by themself already..
Anyway, in a nutshell: stating that trance doesn't require talents is nonsense. Ok, as printed score you wouldn't want to show it to Bach, but that's also not really the concept of trance anyway. It's interaction with the production to create broad landscapes.
'k time to eat..