Edit: Adrian removed his post! Hmmm to keep or not to keep!
I'm just stating facts. C++ is the real deal. My experience is somewhat irrelevant in that matter.
I'm also not the one who is trying to impress C++ programmers with my amazing BASIC code. Give me a few more years though and I will be impressing people with my C++ code. At least I've got the appropriate attitude for success and I'm not content to sit back and wait for someone to add feature X,Y,Z to some closed access BASIC language.
The argument here is why are people "prejudiced" agaisnt BASIC. Well, I think I stated a lot of good reasons above. I'm "prejudiced" against it because it is restricting. Yes, C++ is also restricting to me at the moment but not because of someone else ... only because of me. BASIC and game programming in general was restricting in a similar fasion a few years ago. Got to keep moving forward though.
And Adrian you really shouldn't come at me like that. Perhaps you should consider the fact that I'm on the real path to success through learning and hardwork.
My initial experience programming computers is all based in C++. Why didn't I create games with it before? Because I didn't like the fact that I had to create every function just to get some graphics on screen etc... BASIC was a lot easier for me to use to make a game so I did that. Now I'm seeing how C++ is used to create a whole game and I'm also seeing the restrictions that are lifted from your program when you've got access to the C++ source.
I'm not arguing against BASIC and I'm not arguing that games shouldn't be created with high level language. I said all of that above. All I did was give a reason why no C++ programmer is really going to be impressed with some BASIC code. To top that off I'd be fine using BASIC if I also had access to the C++ behind it so that I could add feature X,Y,Z to a pre-existing codebase.
Of course I don't think I'd be happy with that forever ... but at the moment that's where I'm at pretty much. Using Torque is great because you have the low level and the high level. Of course the high level in Torque is just like C and not like BASIC. But that only helps you gain a better understanding of typcal C syntax. Still you're using what is essentailly C to code the game logic but it's not all that different from Blitz which is quite C like itself.
I don't see why it's such a big deal to realize that BASIC is pretty that ... basic and that other languages like C++ are above it in the hierarchy of skill.
It's all equivalent exchange. C++ takes more time to master but the rewards are equally as great. If you're afraid of C++ I'd recommend learning Torque or someother similar tool because it'll get you up to speed nicely.
I'm saying this as someone who has gone through all forms of BASIC and has created many many many games. More than any of you know about but surely the public ones are enough to validate my opinion on making games.
I'll have to also quote the main man Mark Sibly himself from his worklog:
For example, why are people even using something like Blitz? What's wrong with C/C++? I personally think its mainly because, although C/C++ isn't really 'hard' in terms of programming, using them can be a real IT nightmare! Where do I stick my includes/libs? Why do I get 1000 errors from one missing '}'? Where's the real error? How seriously should I take all these compiler 'warnings'? Which is all stuff I remember going through in my early days of C/C++ coding - basically, you have to know a lot before you can even do a little.
So there's Mark himself asking why are people using BASIC. And, as he says it is because you really have to know what you're doing to use C/C++. Basically, that's the type of backlash you're getting from other people who aren't impressed with BASIC ... they know that you don't know a lot ... but you think you know a lot.
It's a bit like that game people ragged on last week.
http://www.blitzmax.com/Community/posts.php?topic=50847
The guy put all that effort into it and it was cool for a beginner project. Of course many people around here had already grown beyond that level of skill so they weren't impressed. They were even less impressed that the guy thought he had done something really great.
I think C++ programmers feel very similar about BASIC programmers ... to them that's the level they were at when they were kids or at least early on in their programming careers like myself. I didn't learn to program until I was 18 and that was only on a calcualtor ... I was 21 before I was actually doing any programming on a computer. Not saying I'm never impressed with BASIC anymore but let's just say that most of the time it doesn't really blow me away like it did in the beginning.
I'm just stating facts. C++ is the real deal. My experience is somewhat irrelevant in that matter.
I'm also not the one who is trying to impress C++ programmers with my amazing BASIC code. Give me a few more years though and I will be impressing people with my C++ code. At least I've got the appropriate attitude for success and I'm not content to sit back and wait for someone to add feature X,Y,Z to some closed access BASIC language.
The argument here is why are people "prejudiced" agaisnt BASIC. Well, I think I stated a lot of good reasons above. I'm "prejudiced" against it because it is restricting. Yes, C++ is also restricting to me at the moment but not because of someone else ... only because of me. BASIC and game programming in general was restricting in a similar fasion a few years ago. Got to keep moving forward though.
And Adrian you really shouldn't come at me like that. Perhaps you should consider the fact that I'm on the real path to success through learning and hardwork.
My initial experience programming computers is all based in C++. Why didn't I create games with it before? Because I didn't like the fact that I had to create every function just to get some graphics on screen etc... BASIC was a lot easier for me to use to make a game so I did that. Now I'm seeing how C++ is used to create a whole game and I'm also seeing the restrictions that are lifted from your program when you've got access to the C++ source.
I'm not arguing against BASIC and I'm not arguing that games shouldn't be created with high level language. I said all of that above. All I did was give a reason why no C++ programmer is really going to be impressed with some BASIC code. To top that off I'd be fine using BASIC if I also had access to the C++ behind it so that I could add feature X,Y,Z to a pre-existing codebase.
Of course I don't think I'd be happy with that forever ... but at the moment that's where I'm at pretty much. Using Torque is great because you have the low level and the high level. Of course the high level in Torque is just like C and not like BASIC. But that only helps you gain a better understanding of typcal C syntax. Still you're using what is essentailly C to code the game logic but it's not all that different from Blitz which is quite C like itself.
I don't see why it's such a big deal to realize that BASIC is pretty that ... basic and that other languages like C++ are above it in the hierarchy of skill.
It's all equivalent exchange. C++ takes more time to master but the rewards are equally as great. If you're afraid of C++ I'd recommend learning Torque or someother similar tool because it'll get you up to speed nicely.
I'm saying this as someone who has gone through all forms of BASIC and has created many many many games. More than any of you know about but surely the public ones are enough to validate my opinion on making games.
I'll have to also quote the main man Mark Sibly himself from his worklog:
For example, why are people even using something like Blitz? What's wrong with C/C++? I personally think its mainly because, although C/C++ isn't really 'hard' in terms of programming, using them can be a real IT nightmare! Where do I stick my includes/libs? Why do I get 1000 errors from one missing '}'? Where's the real error? How seriously should I take all these compiler 'warnings'? Which is all stuff I remember going through in my early days of C/C++ coding - basically, you have to know a lot before you can even do a little.
So there's Mark himself asking why are people using BASIC. And, as he says it is because you really have to know what you're doing to use C/C++. Basically, that's the type of backlash you're getting from other people who aren't impressed with BASIC ... they know that you don't know a lot ... but you think you know a lot.
It's a bit like that game people ragged on last week.
http://www.blitzmax.com/Community/posts.php?topic=50847
The guy put all that effort into it and it was cool for a beginner project. Of course many people around here had already grown beyond that level of skill so they weren't impressed. They were even less impressed that the guy thought he had done something really great.
I think C++ programmers feel very similar about BASIC programmers ... to them that's the level they were at when they were kids or at least early on in their programming careers like myself. I didn't learn to program until I was 18 and that was only on a calcualtor ... I was 21 before I was actually doing any programming on a computer. Not saying I'm never impressed with BASIC anymore but let's just say that most of the time it doesn't really blow me away like it did in the beginning.