Noel: we've had disagreements in the past, this is another. :) my personal taste is GUI's should be hooked to the OS there running on, not connected and dependant on your own drawing of all the gadgets etc. while these where very nice and they have there place just as anything does, it isn't by far the most aproperate course of action when it comes to GUI's, (BGUI, XLnt, etc.. all due respect) but, the best way (at least in mho) is OS Gui's why re-re-re-re-reinvent a wheel?